Hi guys,
If there's something about 40k I really like, it's list building. And because of that, I always like reading people's like, criteria for their list...
It's a like a sudoku or a puzzle to me, e.g. "make a competitive/fluffy/.. list with the following: Blood Angels, Death Company who have to be able to get into assault, fluffy."
It's a really cool way of directly helping people, and it keeps me mind bussy!
So, normally, if this were a popular blog like 3++ or Fritz or Nick's blog, they'd ask people to send in there questions and ideas... But since I'm far away from that level, I post things on forums.
So, one of those ideas recently came from 'Tankage' on The Warmaster forum (http://thewarmaster.com/index.php) run by Fritz (Way of Saim-Hann... Really? Oh c'mon go check check him out if you haven't already: http://www.fritz40k.com/).
Tankage's post went as follows:
Hi all,
I have just got back into 40K after a very long absence and I am looking to put a guard list together. I preffer fluffy lists but dont want to lose every game, so here are the criteria:
No non fluff spam - i.e. flyers (one or two maybe but not 9!), plasma (would be quite rare) etc
I like grenade launchers, sniper rifles etc as these seem more appropriate/likely.
Minimal vet units
Must have CCS
I would also like a variety of specials to make it unpredictable/fun
My modelling skills are currently very very rusty so basic kits rather than customSo: IG, competitive, grenade launchers and snipers, no plasma, minimal vet units, minimal spam and unpredictable surprise units! Before I get on to my reply: there were some mentions about Penal Legion & Leman Russes being very good, so that's why I mention them as well.
Am i being unrealistic? Would appreciate guidance/recommendations on list/tactics?
Also, it wasn't exactly clear whether he ment CCS as in Company Command Squad or as in Close Combat Specialists. Anyhow, I stuck in both!
Here's what I came up with:
Imho, there are some more things you can do around that theme. If I may:
Penal Legion is very much right up there when it comes to 'supposed to be very good' combat oriented
troops. But in the end, they're far from that: they're normal 10 infantry troopers, but with a random special ability (furious charge, rending attacks, assault 2 lasguns) and scouts.... For 80 Points. And they can't take any type of upgrades.
If you want guys that can deal out some pain or tie other units up, meh, you're looking at the wrong guys. The only thing you could potentially do with them is outflank them and shoot some small cultist units (but IG have multiple ways of dealing with those), or scout them up forward towards the relic in that mission. Let's just say I wouldn't take these guys for there competitive value, but if want to take them from a fluff perspective, keep in mind the above things.
Leman Russes are good, but I very much more preffer Barrage weapons in a competitive setting. The problem with the Russes is1. They're insanely expensive2. It makes them very much an 'all eggs in one basket' type of unit. Drop Pod wolves, vendetta's, deep striking fusion suits,... Unless you have a big blob surrounding the whole thing you're an easy target.3. Sure they can put out a great deal op pain, but every unit in 40K who wants a 3+ or 2+ cover save can get it these days.
Alright, enough of my tiny little remarks, here's what I would bring personally to the table with all of your given criteria:
HQ
CCS - Attach one of the following characters: 1) Straken or 2) Creed. Based on that give your CCS 1) Grenade Launchers, 2) An Autocannon
1) Straken boosts nearby units with things like furious charge and beats the snot out of dreadnoughts. Give the other guys some grenade launchers.
2) Creed gives you the ability to outflank a single IG unit, but this can be anything. He's your definition of a
'surprise' guy. Outflanking a Vendetta's allows you to shoot other flyers in the rear arc, outflanking a blob of guardsmen allows you to put a huge pressure on your opponents back field. Though that last thing can also be done with Alraheem if you want, so than you could have both. Keep in mind that should you outflank a blob, that it will be without support from the company command squad, therefor being slightly less awesome.Oh, always take a chimera for survivability
Pirmaris Psyker - My personal favourite: roll on the accompanying telepathy or biomancy charts. Telepathy will give you the best powers he has acces to: puppet master, psychic shriek,... Biomancy only if you face say tyranids, because you have a chance of being able to lower their toughness -> insta killing.Experiment around with this guy, he can do some neat stuff. Mine has killed Great Daemons, Logan, Oblitirators,...We'll probably make this guy our warlord, so we can decently hide him in a big unit of guardsmen, after all a CCS is only 5 guys, and we don't want to lose our warlord so easily.
ELITES
Marbo - No way you want to miss him. He's your suicide guy, the most badass surprise unit in the game. I ones used him to pieplate a unit of havocs and shoot a helldrake in the rear with his own quadgun with interceptor.
Psyker Battle Squad - Yeah, it still works, and can do some neat stuff in combo with the primaris' Telepathy. If your fluff allows for it, that is.They lost their survivibilty vs 5th Ed because their much-needed chimera is now an easy target though.
TROOPS
Alrighty, let's get crackin'. What we're gonna do is take 2 Blob Squads. Why? Because that will give us some big units that will get insanely good in combo with the above special characters (either Creed for tactical precision or Straken for some full-on assault).Both will also be able to recieve orders from our CCS, making them an insane shooting unit, AND there biggest fear: LD8 is negated by those characters' abilties and by sticking in the primaris. So 2x The Following:
1. PCS with 3 Flamers (we'll get to that later)2. 3x Squad with extra weapons, Power Axe, Melta Bombs3. Squad with extra weapons, but no power axe etc
Now we have 80 bodies on the table, that our opponent simply can't get rid off, meaning we automatically can take control of 2 objectives in the game (!).'Extra Weapons' can mean anything, normally I'd say plasma, so in your case: go with grenade launchers and autocannons.The PCS will hop in vendetta's
FAST ATTACK
2x Vendetta's with HB Sponsors - As the vendetta is my favourite unit in the whole codex (tie with Primaris & Marbo though), I could write another page on how to play it. However I'll stick to this:
1. Go second, always. Maybe if it's like a very mobile army you're playing and it's relic, or it's kill points and your opponent doesn't have flyers,...
2. Stick in the PCS's.
3. Use the comm relay (see below) to get the guys in exactly when you want them to: but remember: if you don't need 'm, keep'm safe.
4. Turn 5: drop the PCS's to contest objectives. Most guys will use small cultist units or 5 Necrons to hold them, so 3 flamers will do the trick. This way you can make sure you secure at least about 3 objectives at the end of the game (->blobs). If you scatter way of: you can use 'Move, Move, Move' to get into position
And if you really want to go 'surprise, surprise': take rough riders. They're 10 Points a piece, but for that you get a 12" move, the option of taking 2 special weapons, and power weapons.
Either you take a small, 5 man unit with some special weapons who you can hide and use as a deadly assassination unit (think of attack bikes and such) with 2 meltaguns... 75 points for that? That's a pretty damn good deal.
Or take a big unit of ten, and go for the assault. Sure, they'll die, but the moment they charge you get 30 S5, I5 Power Weapon attacks. You can wipe out a whole squad of space marines doing so for a total of 105 points!But remember, they're only guardsmen in stats, so a blow of the wind will kill them. Hiding them is the best you can do: with a 12" move you should be able to put them behind a piece of LoS blocking terrain. And then, when the time is right: strike!
HEAVY SUPPORT
Yeah, you could go with leman russes, however, don't go to insane on the sponsors: maybe if you have like 50 points left, but don't leave things out because you want to make these babies even more expensive.
Also: take a piece of barrage, please. They denie almost all vehicle cover saves and can SNIPE (!) characters and such away. A manticore would be fitting.So, I'd go with 2 Normal russes and a manticore in your case.
FORTIFICATIONS
ADL with a Comm Relay (Reroll Reserve Rolls, failed or succesful). Gives your blobs a 2+ cover save if necessary (you can use the 'Get back into the fight' order to get them on their feet again and act normally) and allows you maximum control over your reserve.
You might have noticed I did not choose snipers: that's because they're to expensive for guardsmen. If you want snipers: I strongly advice you to take the following:
Take Dark Angel allies!Now, with a bit of modelling work (head swaps mainly) you can make a sniper scout squad look like some nice IG veterans, and a Librarian look like an imperial guard psyker.
You won't dismiss your fluff, and this will give you those sniper rifles in a way better way. A Dark Angel librarian also has acces to divination, wich you can use on your blobs and leman russes to let's say... Make them Twin-Linked? Ignore Cover Saves? Give them a 4+ Invul?A Mastery level 2 librarian (stick this one in your not-primaris psyker blob) and a scout squad with camo cloaks, snipers and a missile launcher rocks in at about a 190 points!
Hope this was of any help, and eh... Well, if you have any question, I'll be more than happy to answer them
Well, I could copy that last sentence really: if you, my only reader, have any comments or criticism on both the list and the overall format (is it douchy to copy forum reponses on a blog? Nobody really does that.), please go ahead an post'm... Again, it's very motivating to read a comment.
Cheers,
- Raggbur
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